She Quit $10K/Month, Launched Unfinished, and Got 400 Users Overnight

You quit a 10k a month of income to go all in on all in on Momo. And Momo is Momo is a CRM for AI agents. You think of it as a sales CRM plus product analytics. So that it has all the information of how your customers interact with your product, but also the interactions that you've had with the customer.

You spend months running three distinct memory architecture experiments. What did you find out that surprised you the most? " Like what what kind of value do you provide to us? Memory is just going to be the next rag component.

Like everyone will be building their own internal memory system. Let's talk about the advantages of building in public. Your customers really correlate yourself with the brand. People reach out to you first when they really need the product and they know that you're building in that space.

When they think of that problem, they think of you and then they reach out to you. So, it's really a whole like really good like feedback leak cycle and whenever I do the launch videos, I didn't even fully build out the entire product and I just launched it because I wanted to see the demand and see if people actually need it. Kaylin, hi. Hello.

We're going to be doing something a little bit differently. I'm going to say something and then you're going to fill in the blanks. You ready? Okay.

Okay. You graduated from NYU Abu Dhabi. You built a community of of AI develop non-developers in Korea to help them like learn how to make AI applications. And how many people?

Um, last time I checked it was 32,000 people for my YouTube channel. Yeah. You quit at 10K a month of income to go all in on all in on Momo. And Momo is Momo is a CRM for AI agents.

Um, that's very vague, but it's more like you think of it as a sales CRM plus product analytics. So that it has all the information of how your customers interact with your product, but also the interactions that you've had with the customer. Yeah. Awesome.

Kayla Young, welcome to the show. We're going to start with this very um interesting story how you you were making 10,000 a month and then you were you had like this community 32,000 people in Korea and then you left all that to to go build Momo like you or you went to SF. So why did you decide to quit that life? Yeah.

So before doing the AI community thing, I was still doing startups for a long time. So Momo is my third startup now. And then after my second startup, I had a lot of burnout from startup life. Um I was really questioning like why was I doing this?

I wanted to do something that I really enjoyed doing and what I was good at and that was community building because I like talking to people and then I I I love like sharing insights with other people of what I've learned. Um, so that sort of like very spontaneously spun off um, back in like 2023 September and then I started like uploading a lot of like insight articles in the AI industry and also posted like tutorial videos on how to make your like AI GT applications and stuff and then that sort of blew up. So I started doing a lot of B2B lectures on how to help companies employees like utilize AI into their workforce workforce. Um so I was doing that for like a year and then I think after a year I sort of got really burnt out because I was doing like six to eight hour lectures every day with the same content like every day.

So I became like a robot just talking about the same things over and over again. Um, so it was like pretty good money um, compared to like the Korean standard income. But, um, yeah, I mean like I think I realized at the end of the year um, I'm like a builder at heart and then my dream is to like really build a product that can just like scale to like millions and billions of users. Um, so I wanted to just like do that dream again.

Um so I think the time period where I was doing the AI community thing was just sort of like a um resting period for my startup life and then after a year I think I was like fully ready to just jump back in to the startup world and then start building again which is you think like lecturing and like I mean you were really you were like an expert at like AI right like and so did you think that really pretty much helped you kind of build a really good product like with do you think that was a good like resting period. So yeah, it was very much needed. Um what well in terms of like the skills or or um like the expertise on building um my startup which is Momo um I think like that's a bit different like I mean I'm I'm a CS background so I already knew how to like build stuff and like I already knew everything about it. So it's not in not more in like 10X AI club helped me prep my skills for my third startup.

It was more like a resting period. So, I think it was more just like on the mental side that I just wanted to like take a break from building stuff and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's awesome. And then you decided to like move to SF or just like come here. You like do like trips there. They're back from like Korea.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't have a visa right now. So, I'm on ESTA travel visa.

And then um I've like never been to SF until last year when I first came here in May. So when I first came to SF, I think I realized like it was it was a it was like so shocking to me that I never came to this place like earlier. I don't know what I was doing in Korea. Um I felt like if I built the same AI community not in Korea but in SF it would have been like so much bigger and I sort of regretted that after coming to SF.

Um so after that I came to SF like every 3 months and then I'm still doing that right now. Um, and then this January I luckily got into Founders Inc. So that was like a huge step up in terms of what I was building and like just I I think like I really wanted to explore how much I could um like how much of my community building skills could also be adapted to SF and like the states. And then I think January was a great time to find that uh about myself as well so that I I realized like I could apply the same like skills that I did in the 10x club thing to like here as well.

Yeah. And yeah, speaking of Founders, Inc. Let's let's make our way to the sign because we are here right now. One of the things I like to ask my guests is what what's one place that shaped them or one place where something important and special happened?

And for you, you mentioned Founders Inc. Can you tell me more about that? Yeah, so for Founders Inc. um this was back in January to February and I participated in the program called Artifact.

Um, back in December last year, I was really trying to go to SF just for the sake of coming to SF because um, like things are very different when you're doing sales for example like in Korea compared to like being in SF. So I had booked a flight ticket and then coincidentally Founders Inc. was um was uh yeah, they launched their program for Artifact and they were like looking for people to join the program. So, um I was like I was like just like pushing that to the side until it became the last day of the application deadline.

Um so I was like applying for it and then I was in Vietnam um traveling with my family. Um I was like writing the application and then my mom suddenly uh she sort of like fell and then had to go to the emergency room. Um, so we were like on the way to the emergency room. We were at the ER and there was only like a couple of hours left until the application deadline.

So I was like, well, like I'm going to film this here. So I filmed the um founder video like in front of the ER and then like applied for that and then and then like somehow like that got in. I was like on my last just like I was like it, like we'll see how this goes. And then I applied for it and then yeah then like it it happened.

So I came to SF and then this was a very I think um pivotal moment for also Momo and me because um I think I made the biggest leaps uh for growing Momo when I came to Founders Inc. And what was really good about this program was that it really pushes you to see your limits and then you're really surrounded in a setting where everyone is like working like 24/7 and just like staying here all the time. Um so during the five weeks I think I've made the most like progress ever uh compared to the past year past months of what I was building Momo and what forcon said was like really good which was get the off of local host. So that's what I did.

I produced like a lot of uh demo videos. I launched it. They went viral. Um I think all my three videos that I posted on X went really viral.

So like hundreds of users came into the product and then that really just got me going since then. So now it's like April, but um since the start of Founders Inc. it just helped me a lot on talking to like so many users, shaping the product and it just made me like make so much progress compared to like the previous ones. Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about Momo. So did you start building Momo at Founders Inc. or was it before? Um yeah, so I built I started building Momo back in June.

So I mean it went through a couple of pivots and then um the current version of like well actually I did another pivot but the version that I did in Founders Inc. was like more like a companywide memory where it keeps track of what you and your employees are doing. So before that I was like building out a personal assistant for founders and then I launched it back in September. Um, I got some user feedback and I realized that it wasn't much of a big issue like a hair set on fire problem for a lot of the founders.

They really wanted to know um what's actually going inside of their company and I thought it was a bigger problem to solve which I could have more fun doing. um which was why I was exploring that idea in artifact and then based on that I I launched my first um demo video um in the second week of the artifact program and then that got around like a thousand likes and then a couple hundred views and that's where like 300 400 users came in to our platform started using it um yeah so that was like how it was built during artifact yeah so with Momo you had three different pivot And your second pivot I believe was the unified in inbox, right? Well, that's our first product. Yeah, the first product.

And so for that, you actually became like an executive assistant to really kind of feel the the pain and and so what did that teach you that user interviews couldn't? Um yeah, I think like based on actually working as an EA for a couple of founders, I realized that um I don't think like any like software could at least for now like actually replace a human EA because the things that founders delegate to executive assistance aren't just about like uh scheduling or like emailing or replying to someone. It's it's really more um like nuance. they can like give you so many different tasks such as like having to get presents for your investors or booking a restaurant or like those kind of stuff.

Um, so really like what founders want from executive assistants are are like is like AGI like it has to like there has to be so many different agents that work for that founder and it also has to be really personalized. And so like that really just helped me understand like quickly like what kind of product that I need to build and also validate if if my product would actually work for them or not instead of just doing like user interviews. Yeah. So which so it was the um the the first like inbox was the first to kind of first one and then you went into now you're doing well no you said that there's a third so there's three right what was the second oh so the first product I built out was a unified inbox that aggregates all LinkedIn Gmail WhatsApp and then I pivoted to companywide memory that keeps track of what your employees are working on which was built in artifact and then now I sort of did a small pivot again which is like a CRM for agents and so which pivot like hurt the most what was like which was um honestly it doesn't hurt me like I mean pivot like you have to do it if if there's no signal I think I'm just like like yeah this is my third startup and then I've been building startups for like 5 years now so I'm really used to like yeah it's like it doesn't really hurt anymore I just I just got numb to it so let's talk about your other two startups your first startup was Eddie an AI chatbot for university professors.

Yeah. You built it while you were a student at NYU Abu Dhabi, right? Let's talk a little bit more about that first startup. Um yeah, so that was my first startup and then I built it in New York actually because I was doing a study away in New York.

Um so during that time I was taking a class at NYU Stern and then the class name was like like how to start a startup like those kind of stuff. So I wanted to really try building my first startup because right before that semester during summer break I worked at a startup at Korea and then during the three months I was working there I was like oh I think I can do better than the CEO and then and then that's how like I decided to build out Eddie. Um yeah the reason why I built out Eddie was because I was trying to look for a product that really matched the founder market fit. I was a student so I wanted to solve other students problems which was they were asking a bunch of questions to their professors but it would always take a bit of time to get back to them.

So I wanted to build an AI chatbot that immediately answers the students questions and this was before chat. So yeah I was like trying to build that. I built that for like eight months. It was my first startup.

There were a lot of issues there. I didn't really find PMF because I was trying to target students and students are broke. They don't have money. Um, so yeah, I think like after eight months I sort of just like there was no progress and everything.

So I I guess like that was my first failure um in in terms of like building a startup. Okay. Yeah. And then your second startup, Control X, was a multimodal video search engine and you quit after two months.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean a lot faster than the first one which eight months. What was that like a sign of progress?

like you realized that like yeah there was it wasn't working let's quit like faster or what? Oh no. So that was actually a different issue because for my second startup it was more well I think you said like multimodel video engine because it was like that on my LinkedIn but it was more like a short form reals generator for content creators and I built that with two other co-founders and then the reason why that startup ended so quickly was because um because because of co-founder issues and then that was my first time dealing with co-founder conflicts. Um, and then I knew I had to quit because it was just like not a healthy relationship between the co-founders.

Okay. And then yeah, that's how it like immediately just like Yeah. ended. And you mentioned that you had five co-founder breakups.

You like you were try testing out five co-founders. Yeah. Um, yes. So during the past year for my third startup, um, I was just trying to be really cautious about choosing my next co-founder.

And then I've tried doing it with multiple people. After my co-founder breakup for my second startup, I was just like um I dealt with a lot of just like trust issues. Um I wanted to really find the right person. So um if there were like signs that oh I don't think I can build a startup with this person for the next like 5 to 10 years.

I think I quickly made a decision not to move forward with that person. And that's why I did like various co-founder trials during last year. And then now it's like um yeah, now I currently met my co-founder during Artifact um two months ago. So we're now like in our second month of building one together.

Yeah. So for your two co-founder trials, I mean you had more than than two, but But um so yeah for my second startup um there were some co-founder conflicts and then for that I think it was just more about um how much how much do you trust the other co-founder and then um there were two other people the other friend that I did with was like I've known him for a very long time so I immediately like trusted him 100% and then he brought in another co-founder um and then that person I never like dealt with before. Um, but I still immediately trusted this person because my friend had brought that person in. Um, but I think that didn't go the same way for that person.

He said he explicitly said that he didn't trust me. Um, so that we needed to build the trust layer. Um but I think like because of that um there was like there was like a mismatch in terms of how we were going to work together and that sort of just like just aggregated piled up and then by the second month I realized that um I don't think like I could work with this team for the next like 5 to 10 years. So I think that was like the first real like co-founder breakup that I went through and it was really hard for me personally because I was trying to like just examine like what went wrong and I think I tried to place a lot of faults onto myself.

Um so after that I was being very cautious in terms of like working with other people and I also did like the AI community by myself. I really wanted to test how far and how long I could go by being solo and then 10x AI club really sort of proved that proved that I could do a lot just doing it by myself as well. So that by like by the time that I was trying to uh build Momo, I was really contemplating on should I build this myself or should I try to bring in other people? But I know I knew that like to build a billion-dollar startup or like a business, you definitely need co-founders, which was why um I was yeah, I was very I was being like both cautious when it turns to bringing new co-founders in and if they didn't really meet the criteria, I would not like work with them and I would like end the co-founder trial, which is why like I went through like very multiple multiple trials.

How long was a trial? like how how usually yeah usually we would decide um let's try like a one month sprint of working on a project together and then by like working with them for at least like two to three weeks you sort of know how that person communicates how that person thinks how that person works and stuff. So if any of those were not really um like working out, for example, one of the other co-founder trials that broke up was because um the other co-founder had issues in communicating. So we were working remotely, but I really needed the other person to just constantly update like what was going on, what that person would do for like daily and every day.

But it it that didn't really like work out. So that came off or like the other co-founder we would have like different stances on the vision of the product and in those terms like that would also break up. So there are like various reasons why yeah both and like you mentioned how you said one of them like didn't he said he didn't trust you and like why didn't he trust you like what does trust mean to you? Well, I I think this is very different um from person to person.

For me, like when I see a p or when I meet a person, I immediately give them my full trust and then um if things don't work out, I guess that's when the gauge of trust like goes down. But there are also people who have low expectations and have no trust, but they slowly build that trust layer up. So, I think it's just very different on how people deal with other people. But for me, I tend to give my full trust.

And I think that's only how startups work because like if you don't have trust in each other, like even from the beginning, you have to have 150% full trust on each other so that the product works out as well. But if that's not the case, it's going to be really hard for that team and then the product to work out. And like what if for example um someone like breaks your trust? Like is it easy to earn your trust back?

like your would you say like is it easy because you know how people say it's like if you you know like Yeah. So so this is just very like personal aspect of me I think like based on the previous co-founder journals that I did if someone if my other co-founder did break um some sort of like trust I think I would just immediately end it there. But for my current co-founder, I think like after doing like so many co-founder breakups, I I realized that okay, there's like there has to be some fault to me as well. And then um and then like coincidentally, I came across a book called How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dan McCarnne.

And then that really helped me understand why I was like sort of behaving like that and how I could better act uh or how to better like manage people. And that really helped me with my current co-founder to um to I think to like understand the other person and try to influence the other person to um to act in a way that can be both like successful for both parties. Um, so I'm like I'm really like practicing that right now and trying to get better. Yeah.

What's the one thing you learn um in how to win friends and influence people that it's really So I think a really common pattern that Daniel Carnegie talks about in his book is that um when two parties have very opposing uh opinions about what they want to do. um he he gives a he he teaches a lot of tactics on how to get across my point of view and try to influence that person to agree with my point of view. So, it's more like um it's like sort of like unconsciously um like persuading that other person to agree with you but in a very nice way or not trying to come off as like very like cuz usually when you like have different point of views, you sort of tend to like fight or get like very heated up in the conversation. But he takes a very different approach where he is very like kind about how he approaches things and is very Yeah.

Yeah, he just like teaches a lot of stuff on how you can be both kind and get across your point of view so that the other person agrees with it and then acts on a way that you want them to act. Okay, let's talk about the Dale Carnegie book. What What's like uh what's a key thing you learned from from that book? Yeah, so it's really about like if if two people have different opinions, they tend to get like very heated up in the conversation and they try to like really convince the other person in in like in a bad way.

like they get heated up and this stuff, but he mentions a lot of tactics on how to get your point across by being like very kind so that the other person eventually agrees with your point and then acts in a way that you want them to act. So it's it I mean I wouldn't call it man manipulation, but it's it's more about like just being like respectful of the other person and like being kind and being Yeah. Can we wait can we do like a a role play of how that would look like? So So pretend I'm like disagreeing with you.

practicing though, so I don't know. Okay, let's let's try. So, okay, Kaitlin, uh I like I disagree with you. Like I think we should go with my uh with like I think we should go with I want to do this.

Like I think we should go with that. Um but what about like I give an example of how I do it with my co-founder. My co-founder does not know that he's do that I'm not I'm doing it to him right now. Sure.

Okay, let's do an example. Yeah, let's do an example. Like usually like like as a CEO, I want him to like build some things out cuz like I have like so many ideas that come from like user interviews and stuff. Um so rather than just like telling him that oh I want you to build this, this and this.

Um I would like tell him about the user interviews, what the users like really wanted out of this and then I would like ask him um really just like like really targeted questions on like oh what do you think about this like part and like what do you think about this idea that the user talked about and then he would be like oh yeah I think like this something that we should build and then he like adds it onto his list of things to build. So it's like more like of a indirect way of like trying to it's like you thought about this, have you thought about that? And then and then does he do like similar things to too? Like does he also say like have you thought about that?

Do do you ever like agree with like Yeah, like that actually is a fair point. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean um I ask him a lot of questions as well when it comes to decisions that he makes in building the product. And then once I get those like questions cleared out, I just like want to make sure that we're on both on the same ground. So I would ask a lot of like questions in terms of um so what is like the definition of what you think about this product or like um yeah in terms of like the technical infrastructure what what kind why did you make this decision and what are you going to do and then once he explains those stuff if I agree with it then like I'm fine like yeah and then we just like get on mutual grounds. So always just like being staying curious like always asking like the why why like or like yeah I ask a lot of questions.

So but this is not really like it's not because like I want to disagree with that person it's more because I want to fully understand like the other person's viewpoint and then if there are some like discrepancies then I would talk about my viewpoint as well and then we would find a middle ground and then yeah it yeah let's talk about burnout. So you've been close to burnout multiple times. You name it directly in your videos. What Yeah, so I think the last time I felt burned out was in December.

Um, I was working like like at least 12 hours every day and then it comes to a point where you haven't like fully rested like you have never like just rested um not touching any work or not thinking about your work for a full day like that. That did not happen last year. So by the time of December that really just like I think it just bursted. So when that happens I don't think I can like I have no mental capacity or like the health like physical like strength to do more work and this is why I took a like week-long vacation to Vietnam and then that's when I applied for Founders Inc.

Um so I think like that sort of thing happens. Um it's also like you also get like emotionally depleted um when it comes to like thinking about your startup. You have like no hope because as a startup founder you go through multiple days like multiple months of like not seeing any hope like there's no progress in the product or like um users don't like there's no like clear signal of of like users liking your product. So I think last year um I think the entirety of last year was really finding about uh the PMS like the product market fit if there's a real pull from the customers and I only started to see that this January.

So for the past year it's been just like grinding every day. um one of my videos like I say it's like just swimming in the abyss of like a dark ocean and you still have to keep going and hold on to that like small fire of like light that guides you. Um so I think like that's that's like what burnout is like for founders. What's your guiding light?

Like what keeps you going? Oh, so for me um um for me it's it's a bit like it's a bit religious like I was I was born Christian and then the whole reason why I started doing startups is because of God because in high school um I was a very like emo kid I had a lot of questions about to God and like the world and like I I I was always I was like always asking him like if if God does exist like why is there so much sin in this world and what can I do about it? And as a kid I was actually like preparing to go to film school because I loved like film so much but I realized that um being a film producer or director like I I wouldn't be able to directly like help people in a scalable way unless you like film a lot of documentaries and stuff. Um, I think that that is that is particularly why I decided to do computer science and go go into the startup like world because I wanted to build products that could really help people directly and and also like earn a lot of money so that I can use that money to directly help people that are in need.

Um and then I I only realized that my mission in life is yeah so like back in January I was just getting a lot of like um positive progress in Momo and I was getting funding like etc etc and that was a time when I started just like really praying a lot more because I didn't want to lose my integrity and I did not want to get far from the main core reason why I started started startups and by praying a lot I think I realized in February that um that God like gave me this mission for a reason and that mission is to really like like my startup will work because he gave me this mission and then I will like fulfill it so that I can help like people in need. Um I only realized that like fe in February. So I think like that sort of came to me as a revelation and then and then that's that's sort of my guiding light right now. Yeah.

Thank you so much for sharing. And we're going to dive deeper about like your dream of starting a film production company in a bit. Okay. But um before that too, what do you think about the concept of work life balance?

Because I've heard so many founders say that like yeah like screw work life balance. There's no such thing as a founder like it's just always work like you stick with your mission. Like what's your um opinion on that? For me, I don't think I have work life balance at all.

But this is also because I really do not even think about doing other stuff than work because like I don't really see it as work. Um because like I I just like enjoy building Momo like nothing really excites me more than doing it. Um, so usually like before um when I was doing my second startup, I if I if my co-founders told me to work like 12 hours every day, I could never do it because I think specifically I was not really into that product itself and I was not interested in solving the problems for those customers. But that's why I particularly decided on this idea like Momo because it's like building a personal assistant.

It's like building a Jarvis. this is something that I wanted to build and it would like it would be like the dream of my life to build this. Um, which is why it doesn't really give me a lot of like stress when it comes to working like every single day. Like I am just like so used to it now and I don't really think about um doing other stuff.

That's amazing. Yeah. really just following like why you and then do you feel like when you finally when you like start realizing that oh I'm actually not passionate with that would you pivot then or like yeah I would pivot yeah I don't think yeah I I would not do it okay and let's talk about like the misconception with burnout too because I feel like a lot of people think or I feel like I would previously I would think that burnout just comes from like you're working like non-stop and you're doing something that you're not passionate with but where where else could burnout like come Um um why would B burn show up and like other than work like oh other than work I guess like um yeah you asked me this question earlier but it it really comes from dealing with people as well. I think um people relationships are the hardest things that you need to go through as as a person but also as a founder because if you're a CEO you also have to manage a lot of people and every single person has been raised in a different environment and a different setting.

So it's it's like when it comes to uh managing conflicts or managing with that person, it's it's very different for each and individual person. Um so in my early 20s I think um I I was like really slowly getting like started to get exposed into the reality of this world and like seeing like all the different um shapes of people how they react to things or how they try to like take advantage of you or like those kind of stuff. Um so when it comes to people relationships there's also a lot of burnout because you can get hurt from um going through really weird relationships as well not just like romantic relationships but also just like business relationship like those kind of stuff. Um so I think like in terms of like people relationships that there's a lot of burnout from that as well.

Is there like an example of when like someone was taking advantage of you or like scammed you in any way or like Yeah. Um yeah, like both I guess. Um, so one incident that happened was like I was first like doing my I launched my 10X AI club community in Korea and then I started my first like membership thing where it was like a five to seven week program where non-developers would get together and I would like help them um like build like AI applications and stuff and then one of the members who joined the program started stalking me and then that went on for like two to three weeks and then that got me like really emotionally stressed. and I had to like report him to the police and then it got resolved.

But like those kind of stuff like I thought I would never go through in my life but I went through that. Um uh so there's those kind of stuff and then um I think that also like yeah so I was like really shocked during that time and I was like uh talking about it with my mentor and he said like oh these are like some of the things that you will go through in life and if you can't stand it you shouldn't be a founder and I think that just only tempted me more to be like well I'm gonna I'm gonna do it like okay I mean I've been through it And then I think I'm just like numb to those kind of interactions. I mean like as a female founder you get like so many weird DMs in your inbox. Um like what like what kind of DM did you get?

I mean like um I I usually post this on my Instagram story. I just like screenshot that cuz it's so funny. But like they would like ask me out on dates or like they would be like oh I'm like 62. I'm like a I'm like a black man.

" Like, I wouldn't even like respond to them. But like I would get a lot of those like DMs like whenever I post a lot of like contents and stuff, but now like it doesn't really like I'm not I'm not phased by it at all cuz because I think because like I've been through like something worse than that and that's pretty sad. But like but now I'm just like numb to it. So, and are you like accepting that it's going to be like unavoidable?

Do you think you can avoid it like or do you think it's just something you can't you Oh, no. I think like as long as you're someone that is very like uh uh like if you post a lot of stuff in the public, it's always going to happen. So whenever I post like a lot of videos on 10x club as well, I would get a lot of like hate comments as well. So I'm really used to that.

Like it doesn't like affect me anymore. And I think I it it's good because it built me the mentality to not be scared of like rejections or failures or any of those like stupid like other opinions that other people have. Um so I guess it it it yeah it helps me build a stronger mentality. Amazing.

And so like now you're like you're can like you know there's like rejection therapy like do you feel like you're really like you're like if someone like if a rejection happens like you just like you're just it's just like a it's a you know it's just a redirection kind of thing you know. Well I think rejection is a bit different. Like I like when it comes to people hating on me or making like weird comments about me. I'm fine with that.

But rejections from customers are different. Like I still get hurt from that. So like when I was building when I'm building Momo and then do a lot of like sales calls um yeah so I was like doing a bunch of sales calls and it was my first time doing like B2B enterprise sales calls. So I would get really nervous and I would drink wine before starting the sales call and then I would completely obliterate it.

Like I would like be so bad at it. I look so desperate in the sales call and then after the sales call I would like cry because like oh I like really that up. and then I would start moving on to the next sales call. And now I think I got like used to it.

But it's still like rejections from you customers. That's still like something that I'm getting used to. Yeah. Cuz like you're building for them.

They're not like they're haters. Like Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Exactly. Cuz you want to build something for them. And haters like I don't really care about them because like I think like if you have haters, you're going in the right direction cuz like at least like you're getting attention from other people. But for users that's that's a whole different story.

Yeah. And so um when you were for example like so you're in a customer call and how did that rejection look like when you were what do they say to you that like oh I I think it's very very direct. Um it's it's like uh I would ask them like oh would you be interested in doing like a pilot with us? And then they would say oh I think we have to talk about it with our team.

Okay. And they were like indirectly like so that's that's a signal that like if they don't say yes right on the spot it's a no. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, okay.

" Like, "Let's like Yeah. Here. Okay. But that's like that's a sing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I I would still like build out the relationship and follow up with people, but yeah. Is there there's a time where a customer um ended up So, there was someone once who said no, but is now your customer user? 5 weeks ago. So I'm actually meeting them in person like this week to maintain build out the relationships and then try to convince them to use it.

So it's really about like building so relationships and like keeping in in touch and then because they always see your journey, they see your progress that like Oh yes yes yes. One of the things that's really good about building in public is that your users also have seen the entire journey and they see me grinding and hustling. So they respect my hustle and then they also do like decide to pay like a lifetime like subscription because of how I put myself out there. That's what makes you stand out like you because like there's just no hiding anything.

You're so true and like we'll we'll talk more about like you being a creator as well cuz that's an incredible story. Uh I want to Okay, so you described in one of your videos you described a startup as being delusional enough to think it will work but extremely objective about data. Oh yes. How do you hold both of those at once?

Um delusional and objective about data. Oh, I think like the delusional aspect is more about believing in yourself that this will become a billion dollar business. But when it comes to making the right decisions or like uh building out the roadmap for the next two to three months, you have to make decisions that are based on data and like based on how customers interact with your products or like um just like any of the data that you catch from them. So I think it goes in like both ways.

Okay. When has like the data told you something you didn't want to hear and you had like you listen um data that I didn't want to hear? I think like the most recent one that I went through is that in January I I did a lot of like launch videos and then a couple hundred users came in but um I was going through all the postto sessions and stuff and a majority of them like turnurned almost like 90% of the users turned. Oh, what churned is it's like um they don't engage with their product anymore and then you they're just like lost.

They don't come back to the product and then they don't use the product. Got it. Yeah. Yeah.

So I guess like that was one data that um you really had to like sit with and like figure out why they're turnurning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So I would like book like I would go through the entire list of couple hundred users. I would match them with um their email addresses and their LinkedIn profiles and I would go through their post talk sessions and then I would like I would reach to them like oh what didn't work out for you? What did work out for you? And then I would gather all of that data to make the right like to make the next decisions.

Yeah. That's awesome. You applied to YC four times. Is that right?

How many? I think it's now five times. Five times. Oh my god.

And then it's going to be my sixth time applying. But but getting into YC is never my end goal. So yeah. Okay.

So do you feel like a lot of founders have that as an end goal? Like getting in YC we made it. There are some founders. Yeah.

Yeah. But why isn't that your like end goal? because so it's not YC like you know it's a such a glamorous name but it's not it's not like it shouldn't be that and all. Oh like I mean I think like YC does give you a lot of um advantage when it comes to getting tapping into that network and then giving that brand name onto your product.

But what I care more about is the product itself and then the profit that we're making, the revenue and then the numbers that we're making. So that's why like YCS is number like um if we don't get in like I don't care. Um if we do get in that's good. Um, so yeah, that's like Yeah.

And why weren't you like getting in like what what did those rejections like? Oh, I mean I would love to ask them, but Oh, you don't get that feedback like you're not able Well, I mean, if you get past the interview stage, you do get that feedback, but I never got to the interview stage. Um I think like some reasons why is because I was a solo founder for a very long time and then um even as a solo founder you do get accepted as a solo founder these days but I think it was more about because I didn't have enough traction and then based on the previous like applications that I've done it's pretty clear now that um yeah it would have probably been safer if I got more like customer pull like a lot of people say like series A to like series B like company founders they say that you will definitely know when you have PMF um because there's a very strong pull from customers and there's like so much stuff that you have to build out for them. I think I never actually went through that phase until like until like really recently.

So that is probably why Okay. So you're now you're slowly starting to see that Yeah. Yeah. So customers are like actually coming to to you and they're like it's a lot there's less friction you feel like on both ends feels more like it's like you have to do less convincing almost.

Do you feel like you have to start doing less convincing or less like salesy like pitching? Oh yeah. Well, if we go into the sales aspect of it like it's it's also very different on how you pitch that during the sales calls. So if you look too desperate and trying to convince them, they will say like no.

But if you're like like sort of like chill like, "Oh, like this is our product. " And then that has like worked for a couple of like people, you know, you're just very very chill, very like like you're like you clearly like you're not It's almost like when you're trying to find like day two, like you don't want to be like I guess. Yes. Yeah.

Sales. Exactly. You're just like Yeah. Like it's it's fine.

Like um you're so confident in yourself. Exactly. Did you do you feel like you've had to do you feel like you were less confident before? Do you feel like now you have more of a confident like presence?

Yeah. Yeah. Because like the first like couple of meetings I really butchered that because I was like because there weren't like any customers and then I really wanted to like land the sales calls and stuff. Um so they smelled the desperation but now I'm like really good at hiding it.

Wow. Okay. So you they smell the desperation because you were trying to almost overexlain. Do you feel like Yeah.

Yeah. But then Okay. Yeah. Were you at that time were you building in public then too?

So did did a lot of people like see a lot of those like kind of pivots or like Oh yeah yeah I would like I I post everything on X. So even my lowest like lows I would like post it. I would say like damn like the like first sales calls like I would drink wine and then cry after like and then they'd be like oh I hope you don't get like addicted to alcohol. So, we'll we'll talk more about your um creator journey a little bit later, but I want to ask right now, I've heard that, you know, a lot of people are saying that the building in public movement is like dying and that it's almost like Okay, I feel like building a public is almost like a like a distraction like you're you're almost like performing like what is your take on that?

Um I think it really depends on which industry you're building in. Um, so if you're a B2C founder, I think you definitely have to do building in public because you wanna Well, the reason why I'm doing building in public is because I want to match my personal brand with my product as well. And in most cases, if it's like really enterprise B2B, you don't really have to do that. As long as you have the network and you can get across the sales and then everything.

But if you're a B2C founder, that's like super really really important because if you're building out your personal brand as well on like X or LinkedIn, people correlate yourself to that product. So when it comes to doing sales calls, they already know who you are and when they use your product, they're more um they're more like nicer because they've already like seen through your whole stories. You know, they're hustling. they're more they're more like acceptable and understanding of like what happens.

But if you don't know the founder, there's also a problem where there's like a millions of other like startups that are building the exact same thing as you and there needs to be a way that you want to stand out. But if you're building like an AI B2B SAS, but um but you don't know who the founder is, then it's going to be purely based on the product itself. then that becomes like really hard to compete with which is why I've been like just letting myself out there so that people know when they think about oh I think I need like a CRM like something they would immediately think of me because we're like correlated and then they would like reach out to me. So putting this the face the name to like the brand and I mean we're just talking about this too like distribution is a product in itself too like you're literally you're building your own brand that is a product you're and you want to like mesh it together.

Yeah. I I I saw this take on Twitter where it said that you shouldn't be building in public. You should be documenting your learnings in public. So, how do you cross a line of like documenting every single second of your life and like showing because it's like there's a difference between like building a public it's like, oh, I'm going to be doing this today, I'm going to be doing that today, but actually like documenting like, oh, I did this.

This is what I learned. Like, how do you approach that? Like, how do you approach that? Like or do you like share your learnings like after you went through it or are you like also documenting while you're going through something like um I don't think I really think about that step by step.

It's more like spontaneously because I'm so used to just like posting everything about my life. Um this is also different by person but there are people who are sort of uncomfortable about documenting their life like building in public and it it sort of comes to them as a work that they have to do. But for me, I'm like so used to it. I I I really like putting myself out there.

And if you look at my Instagram, like every single like second hour of my journey is just like documented on my phone. So for me, it just like comes as natural. Like I'm just like used to it. I I love doing it.

Um and I have fun with it. So cuz I feel like some founders, they see it as like way more work. " But for you, it's just like natural. It's like easy.

You don't think much too much. So don't overthink like yeah are there still some parts that you don't want to share online like what parts like that's a good question but it it it differs based on which platform I'm using. So on X I I do get kind of personal but any story or like any ex X post that I make is all related to mobile and then the business like learnings of what I'm doing. But on my Instagram it's very personal.

So, it's about my personal life, what I'm doing like um with my friends or like those kind of stuff. So, it's like very different. Nice. And where did you see the most customer?

Um like what the funnel, what where what social? Yeah. So, that also depends on which industry you're building in. So, if you're a B2C founder, you want to also get like your profile across like Instagram, uh X, and then Tik Tok.

But if you're B2B, then usually it's like LinkedIn. And if you're a tech startup, then it's like also it has to be really on X. So right now, as a creator, I've been posting a lot on like YouTube and Instagram, but for my for my brand and my product, everything about that funnel goes on X. So all of my funnel is like on X.

That's awesome. Sweet. Let's talk about the advantages and disadvantages of building in public and how do the advantages outweigh? Yeah.

So the advantages of building a public is that um your customers really correlate yourself with the brand. Well, there there's so much advantages like people reach out to you first when they really need the product and they know that you're building in that space. So when they think of that problem, they think of you and then they reach out to you. But there's also a lot of like partnerships that can come in.

You also make so many friends online and I've met like I've made so many friends online through like building in public. Um, and people there's a lot of people that also support your journey. So, they've been through all my lows and my ups and downs. So, when a success happens, they really root for you as well and then they try to like forward it to other people who might be interested in being my customer.

So, it's really a whole like really good like feedback loop cycle. Um, in terms of the disadvantages, I mean, for me as a female founder, I guess it's getting like weird DMs in my inbox, but like other than that, I don't think there's a lot of disadvantages to coming to it. I mean, if if you're like a first-time founder and you might get worried about like, oh, what if other people like steal my idea and my product? Um, but honestly, like the chances of you dying because of your competitors are so low when you're in the early stages.

It's more about like co-founder issues or you not having enough like hope or or um what do you call it like uh the motivation to like build it out. So you're saying the competition should be the least of your worries. Uh you kind of just have to accept that people are probably going to be building very similar things and like are don't you get nervous like what if someone like grows so much better like does this better than me like Yeah. Yeah.

I think the chances of you dying because of your competitors in your super like early stages of building your startup is very low. Like it's it's more about like co-founder conflicts or investor relationships or like getting enough funding. So yeah, I think like that's the least thing you should worry about cuz there's going to be so many millions of products that are really similar to you. So I guess in that way that comes when you should really do like building in public and building out your personal brand.

Um and it's really just about the execution. Okay, now let's go back to talking more about Momo. So, you spent months running three distinct memory architecture experiments and wrote publicly about them. Oh, yeah.

What did you find out that surprised you What surprised me the most? Um, I think it's more about like we first started off as building a top down approach. Well actually no bottom up appro bottom up approach where where we like uh once you once once people connect their applications like Gmail notion or slack we would ingest all the individual inputs that are made across the applications and then start building out the memory layer for them. Um but the issue with that was that it doesn't have a companywide like organizational understanding of what the structure is like.

So they don't know like the AI doesn't know like the projects that they're working on or like a bigger scope of what's working. So we shifted to the second approach which was a top- down approach which we would first extract the product structure the project structures the different teams organization levels and then like put the um individual inputs within those project structures. Um based on that we realized that like based on the two approaches um both of them were not really working out because the AI didn't have a clear understanding of what the company was building. It really needs to know have a full level like company level understanding of like what this product or what this team is doing.

So the our third approach was really starting off from a signal that we could really capture well instead of like these vague inputs across from like Gmail, notion or slack that's way too scattered and way too hard to aggregate into like one complete like thing. So that's why we started doing like uh customer signals which is why we sort of said that we would be building CRM for AI agents because we think that would be the first step um for the AI to really have to understand like who are the customers of this product and how are they interacting with it so that so that like it can make better decisions for the company because when you think about like building out a company most of the decisions that you make are from your customers right like understanding like how they interact with your product. So that's why we like specifically sort of turned the direction. So it's not like a full pivot because we're still trying to build the companywide like organizational memory, but we're starting off from the customer signals.

That makes sense. That's why it's called top down and bottom down. Top down is like enterprise like wide like organization. Bottom down is like he's starting from the individual like Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, that's cool. So you wrote a single onetop SAS memory solution will never work. That's a direct claim.

Do you want to defend it? Um yeah, I mean that that came out of context because we were trying to build like a one-stop solution where if people connect applications to Gmail, Notion and Slack, it would create the entire company level organization. But it it wouldn't really work unless you really have the human in the loop feedback and founders like really make sure that this is the right process and this is the right organizational structure that the AI is building. So right now when we're onboarding our customers, we're doing a white glove like onboarding where we like set up the workspace for them and we constantly check with them to see if this is correct and if this structure is correct.

So I mean if you think about like Palunteer and how they build out like ontology layers and stuff. They also have engineers that really get into the nitty-gritty details of checking if this is correct. Um, but I think I was like naively thinking that a one-stop connector and like connectors to all these apps would immediately build out a full understanding of your company, which was a bit naive. So now we're trying to style a little back and then trying to onboard people in a custom way so that it really works for them.

Okay. Very specialized, very like individual. Yeah, but we're we're like eventually trying to hit the spot where we are onboarding people like in a very custom way now, but based on the data that we're experimenting with, we want to get to the level where it does eventually become like a one-stop solution. Got it.

And then when you said the term white glove, is that what it means? Like white glove is like Yeah. What's white glove? Like that's um I think we can disregard a white glove.

It's just like custom on boarding. Okay, cool. And Momo's current pitch is the AI growth PM. M.

Is that what you're saying? Yeah. I mean, it changes all the time. I don't think now I think saying AI growth PM is is a is a bad Oh, yeah.

bad word. People might think, oh, you're replacing like a PM or something. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So, it's more like um think of like Apollo the sales CRM and like uh getting like keeping track of like the sales pipelines plus like post talk so that it has web analytics of it. Oh, okay. And who was the first person who made you realize that was like the right direction to go to.

Was there a person you decided to like? Um, not in terms of the person, but it it really like every time I do a launch video, you can tell like if people actually like think that this is good. So, you will see a like strong pull from there. And that's what happened with the first couple of launches that I did in Artifact in this room where I produced a demo video.

So a lot of people like a couple hundred users came in and then that's sort of the poll that you can tell that oh this kind of thing like people resonate with. " And then that's like a really strong signal to see that like they would they would try it out. Yeah, that is really cool. So, kind of like the advice is like so when you're making these demo videos, it like you don't necessarily have to have everything put together then you just do what you show the interest.

Yeah, this is like this is the real like I think this is the ideology that forcon is pushing from Founders Inc. Okay, from if you look at the canopy posters right now, you can see get the off of local host. And that's that's that's basically what he means by your product doesn't need to be perfect. And whenever I do the launch videos for the current version of Momo, I didn't even fully build out the entire product.

And I just launched it because I wanted to see the demand and see if people actually need it. And based on the user interviews, then we would like start building it as like concurrently to build out the product. Yeah. Wow.

That's actually a shock for me cuz I already thought like with demo so like you're it's like you're pretty much officially saying like yeah like we have it all. That was amazing. Oh my gosh. I love that.

And you're getting like Yeah. Oh, that's so that's such a cool process. Wow. You built an open claw plugin for Momo.

What does Momo give an agent team that wouldn't have otherwise? Um so now I think I have a very different take in terms of memory. So um I built like a brain for openclaw which means that I built like a memory system that you can host on the cloud so that your openclaw agents have a better understanding of your company organization. But right now I sort of like pivoted from that direction because a lot of teams are also building memory but also a lot of individual developers are building their own memory stack.

So I posted on Twitter some time back um saying that memory is just going to be the next um rag component like people everyone will be building their own internal memory system and Gary Tan is also building like G-brain GStack and they're open sourcing everything. So I think um but I also do respect teams like Hyperspell or memory because they are also building their own memory infrastructure. So, we'll have to see like how this plays out. But I think like the memory stack itself for me, I'm not convinced to say that it will be um uh what do you call it?

Uh like it's not going to be the moat um for your product, but unless you like really go down the path of like super memory or like hyperspol, they're really like doing a lot of research. they're making their own benchmarks like super memory. Um, so I do like respect that aspect. I think like their team is doing great and I think they are going to go like really far with that if they do um really nail those spots in terms of like making the best like memory infrastructure system.

But for me, I wanted to take a different route. When I first launched Momo in January, it was still wrapped as a very enterprise product and we didn't say it as like a memory infrastructure uh tech team. we wrapped it as an enterprise tool and I always wanted to do that. So now I wrapped it as like a end use case as saying it's like a CRM um for AI agents because based on the user interviews that I had with a lot of people they were like okay I understand like this is memory but what next like what can I do with it?

So I was like okay then let's go through the use cases that people can do with memory and then we settled on building out the CRM layer. Yeah. By using that memory technology. Yeah.

Okay. So, you're saying like for some having memory as the mode is good, but like it's it's hard. It can't just be the only hook. Like it can't be the only Yeah.

" Like what what kind of value do you provide to us? And you have to go down a whole route of like explaining the use cases and stuff. But if I say like, "Oh, I'm building like a CRM for AI agents," then they immediately understand like what you're doing. Yeah.

And you mentioned how you wanted to like start integrating Composeio into Momo. And so how does Composio's integration layer fit into how Momo works? Yeah, so Composeio like Yeah, Composeio has an integration layer where it makes you really like it makes builders like really easy to integrate like applications onto their stack, right? So for us we do have to integrate like so many different applications like Gmail notion Jira like linear um stripe uh like any of the billing resources or like the CRM layer like Salesforce HubSpot everything.

So right now we were technically building all the integrations ourselves because we wanted to fit it into our own like memory architecture but um but yeah we we'll have to like look into integrating it but I was thinking about using composio because we need to integrate so many applications. Yeah. So like we established before you ended up building your startups, you were a public speaker and like from that you had to learn how to like recite information in the most concise way, right? Like how long were your did you have to fit every everything in like 30 minutes or how long were your talks?

No, actually my talks were pretty long. It was like 6 hours. Are you kidding? Yeah, like you would do 6 hours like every day um once it starts.

uh but like even within the six hours you want to cram like as much as information possible so that people can get the most out of it and when I do that I I also do like talk in a way that can get my point across like really efficiently and like effectively as well. So I think that really helped out when scripting my demo videos but also founders in like really helped like scripting the demo videos. Um, but I think like that's the single most important thing when you're trying to post stuff on X or like on your Instagram. Like people just really want you to immediately get to the point and then I think that really helped out.

Yeah. Yeah. And you posted how to go viral on X and since then founders have been coming to you for help with your launch videos and you recently got your first paying customer client. How did that start?

like um oh so I I actually like very intentionally did this because right now we're building like a CRM for AI agents and we keep track of like how your customers interact with your products right so we're we're like targeting like early stage teams that are also productled growth teams and we want to also help them like grow so we I I decided to like make a content on how to go viral on X and then a lot of um because like I want to help founders go viral and then once they do get viral and get a lot of customers, I want them to also use Momo. So, it's like a funnel. And then right now, what I'm seeing is that I'm seeing founders like reach out to me to help them like help the demo videos. Yeah.

And then once they do get viral, they say that they will use Momo. So, it's like a natural just like Yeah. path. What's the biggest mistake you've been noticing with these uh scripts that people are sending to you?

Like what is what are they? They talk too much. like they need to show the product immediately within the five seconds. But and the whole like point of doing a video is that you want to immediately show what you're doing and not tell, right?

But I think people try to fill in a lot of filler words when they talk just to make it seem more natural. But most of the times you don't need the filler words at all. So that's some of the mistakes. Okay.

So have you have you found like you have to cut a lot of information? Yeah. Like just also when like writing your ex post, you usually like leave the most important sentence like way back, but that's like so wrong. You have to like put the most like hooking like hooking sentence as a oneliner in your first sentence and that grabs the reader's attention so that you engage with it.

Yeah. So it doesn't have to be in order like just like it doesn't have to like Yeah. Just say like like in terms of like storytelling, it doesn't have to be like in order. Just put the biggest hook and then you go into the more details.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's how I usually frame my ex post. Okay, you tweeted, "What if my launch video consulting business is better than Momo?

" How many clients did you do you have right now? Oh, no. I I don't have like a lot of clients. I just like onboarded my second customer, but it's just like um the price range is like much higher than Momo, so it's like I'm making like more with my agency thing.

Yeah, you make a lot with this. Okay. What if Okay. So, do you ever see a world in where you just do like launch video consulting or like or do you continue like Momo is like your passion?

I think what's really funny is that there's like two aspects where this is funny because like doing like content creation comes really natural to me and when people ask me to help them out, it's just like really easy for me. Like it's not even work for me because I know how to like do it. Um, so this is something that I'm born like innately good at, but I always want to like just be good at like scaling a product with my business and stuff. So this is something I'm good at, but there's more like pull here right now.

So it's very annoying cuz I want like more pull like in the product side. But what's really also interesting is that um in my 30s I want to like make my own film production company. Um, and then I think like this could also be naturally into that path, but I also want to be a builder. So, it's like two paths sort of like converging into one, which is pretty two paths converging.

And so, being a full-time, how is it like being a full-time content creator versus being a full-time like founder? Is there? Yeah, I think that's very different. When I am a full-time content creator, I am very um yeah, it just comes natural to me and I really enjoy building the content and stuff.

So, it's like not a lot of stress for me. But in terms of um building a product, you need to be much more like strategic about it. And then there are times when you see no hope um and you have to just keep going. But for content creation, you immediately see um like the views and the engagement rate.

So you can get like a lot of dopamine off of that. But for startups, that's like a very different thing. So I think when it comes to full-time content creator and full-time founder, um it also brings out like different personalities in me and like how I interact with that. Yeah.

Yeah. What would you be doing? Cuz I think right now like those two worlds are merged. Like you're pretty much documenting your whole startup life.

Like if you weren't building a startup, would you still have been like creating content? What would you This is something that I tell my friends. If I weren't doing a startup, I would just become a YouTuber that like travels all around and then just like make a lot of travel content. You mentioned how you've been to so many different places.

Which which countries have you been to? Um, so as soon as I was born, I went to England and then Germany. So I lived there for five years and then I went to the US. So I lived in the States for until like I was 10.

Then for middle school and high school I lived in Korea and then for college I went to UAE, Abu Dhabi. Um, and then like in between I traveled to a lot of countries. Um, I guess like the best place in terms of traveling was Turkey and then the best place to live in is Korea cuz I like Korea. Okay.

Wait, why Turkey the best place to travel? There's just like so much stuff to see. And then it it's like right in between Asia and Europe. So the cultures that you can see are very mixed together and every neighborhood or city that you go to is very different.

Like their landscapes are beautiful. There's so many stuff to do and it's like a mix of culture like everywhere. And would you settle down in Korea then eventually? Would you want to go back to?

Yeah, I I want to settle in Korea. Okay. What's your take on going viral versus like building consistent content? Because Yeah.

What's your take on virality? Because I know some people have a negative connotation like it's not about going it's not necessarily about like trying to go viral. It's more about like you know like I think it depends on how you go viral. So if you look at companies like Culy, they have a very different method on how they go viral.

um they have more like ragebait content or like some content that's not necessarily like related to their product, but they want to build out a company culture where people can just like uh I don't know. I mean, there how how they're intentional about their videos are very different on how I'm in intentional on how I want to go viral in my product. So for my product, I only try to go viral in my launch videos or anything about my product itself. But for Clearly, they have a very different approach where they just want um they're a B2C app and they just want billions of viewers uh viewing their products like Mr.

Beast strategy. Um because if Mr. Beast were to make Cley um they he would just like do so much better than Cle right now. So their strategy is more like just getting their content out to a lot more users regardless of the product and then trying to go there.

Yeah. Okay. You said reviewing launch scripts that genuinely makes you happy. Yeah.

Wow. What is it about the work that feels different from building Momo? Oh, well I think it's because like um like in high school and college I was both like doing theater production and stuff and I think I I genuinely just feel happy when I do that and like any work related to like production or like film those kind of stuff. So it's just a like high school dream that it's just like a kids dream that just like makes me genuinely happy.

But in terms of Momo, it's more like an adult dream. I don't know if you put it that way. Yeah, that makes sense. Sweet.

There. Hi. So, you're one of the founders and one investors of Founders Inc. and you've been able to witness Kalin grow throughout Artifact.

What's your POV um and thoughts on her growth and you know Kevin is one of these founders where there's always something new. She's already doing something something new interesting. There's always motion which I think is the number one prediction for successful founders. So, I think she's going to be very successful.

Motion. Always moving. Always even if it's not working out, always pivoting. Always.

Yeah. Okay, that's awesome. Great tip. Thank you, Kaylin.

Last question. You want to build a billion dollar company. What does Momo need to become to get there? Um, this is a good question, but it's a very hard question to answer.

Um, so I think it really depends on which steps we're going to take next. So in June we're going to do a public launch so that anyone can try out mobile. Um but right now we're targeting like early stage PLG teams but eventually we want to get into really targeted industries and boring industries that do need like some sort of like AI adoption. Um because I think that's where the most value might be.

Um so we're going to try to expand from that. Um in terms of the billion dollar, we'll see from there. We'll see from there. Honestly, I think from this year's Q3, Q3, Q3, and Q4, we're going to start moving into the really like old industries that really need AI adoption.

Which ones? Insurance. No, not insurance. More like like really like shipping or like maritime, like those kind of industries.

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So, once you get more of those, then you feel like you're making progress.

Yeah. Right now until Q2, we're really just like um testing out a lot of like data on these like early stage teams and then see if it really works for them. We're going to have like two different models where it also works for these like B2C founders but also for like B2P enterprises. Awesome.

Thank you so much. Really excited for your journey. Yeah, thank you. That's a wrap.

Thank you so much for tuning in on the Agents at Work podcast.